Mostly metrics
Run the Numbers
What to Know About Layoffs in 2024 with HR Heretics Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church

What to Know About Layoffs in 2024 with HR Heretics Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church

In this episode, CJ talks with the original duo of the Salem Witch Trials the HR Heretics podcast, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church about tech layoffs in 2024. Kelli and Nolan hold no punches and give straight answers to tough questions on layoffs, the job market, and employment best practices. If you're looking for an ERP head to NetSuite: and get a one-of-a-kind flexible financing program until April 15th, 2024.


Join Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich for  unfiltered conversations with people leaders, investors, and CEOS. Dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors. 




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@cjgustafson222 (CJ)

@kellidragovich (Kelli)

@NolanChurch (Nolan)



(00:00) Preview

(00:25) Round 2 with HR Heretics 

(01:57) Sponsor: Maxio | NetSuite 

(04:27) Why Heretics?

(05:05) Millennials, Social Media, and Recorded Layoffs

(11:26) Navigating Layoffs and Role Eliminations

(15:31) Human-Centered is Good Business

(17:52) Role Eliminations or Layoff? 

(19:00) Sponsor: Thoropass | Tropic

(21:27) Managing Out Bottom Performers

(26:37) Severance Packages: From Crappy to Great

(28:11) Supporting Low Performers

(31:55) The Illusion of Safety in Big Companies 

(34:33 ) When Big Company Experience is Sending a Negative Signal

(43:20) Working at Smaller Startups

(45:31) On Attrition Rates

(50:19) Quiet Quitting and Beyond

(53:55) Wrap

Mostly metrics
Run the Numbers
Run the Numbers is a twice-weekly podcast about financial metrics and business models, designed for ambitious people operating tech startups. It's a collection of things host CJ Gustafson (CFO at Partstech and writer of Mostly Metrics) has learned and thought about in the trenches as a tech CFO.
This show is meant to serve as a playbook of sorts for the stuff CJ wishes he knew earlier in his career, both from experience and from copying people smarter than himself.
Topics frequently touch upon Startup SaaS Metrics, Annual Budgeting, Financial Forecasting, Headcount, Equity, Dilution, and Fundraising – and how all of these drive business performance and growth.