Mostly metrics
Run the Numbers
E19: Firing Execs: a Guide, with HR Heretics’ Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church

E19: Firing Execs: a Guide, with HR Heretics’ Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church

At scaling companies. parting ways with an executive requires finesse, strategic insights, and insider experience. CJ invited longtime people leaders - and hosts of the HR Heretics podcast - to break down every facet, lever, and little known facts behind successfully exiting execs. If you’re looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite:

Whether its due to hypergrowth or part of an M&A process. CJ, Kelli, and Nolan describe what they've seen in Silicon Valley and what to watch out for. Kelli Dragovich has been a people leader at Pendo, Intuit, Github, Looker, Google, and more. Nolan Church was head of talent at DoorDash and the former CPO at Carta. He is now the founder of Continuum Talent (



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Has HR gotten too soft? Nolan and Kelli have discussions with people leaders, founders and board members about important and underdiscussed business topics -- and firsthand stories from scaling companies. Highly recommend episodes with Molly Graham on early Facebook, Steve Cadigan on early LinkedIn, and Patty McCord on building Netflix's culture (and infamous culture deck).








(00:00) Intro

(00:20) How to approach exiting a member of the C suite

(02:11) How to frame and handle an executive's termination

(04:19) The best way to terminate somebody

(07:30) Handling compensation when terminating someone

(08:49) The most likely way for an executive to leave a company is to get fired

(17:20) Sponsor - Netsuite | Planful

(19:40) Equity acceleration and executive exits

(23:01) What is a garden leave?

(24:28) Single trigger versus a double trigger clause

(28:00) Sponsor - Tropic

(31:52) On employment agreements

(39:40) How does a board approach firing a CEO

(42:10) Who is more successful at galvanizing a company: founder CEOs or professional CEOs?

(46:00) What if I'm the one getting fired?

Mostly metrics
Run the Numbers
Run the Numbers is a twice-weekly podcast about financial metrics and business models, designed for ambitious people operating tech startups. It's a collection of things host CJ Gustafson (CFO at Partstech and writer of Mostly Metrics) has learned and thought about in the trenches as a tech CFO.
This show is meant to serve as a playbook of sorts for the stuff CJ wishes he knew earlier in his career, both from experience and from copying people smarter than himself.
Topics frequently touch upon Startup SaaS Metrics, Annual Budgeting, Financial Forecasting, Headcount, Equity, Dilution, and Fundraising – and how all of these drive business performance and growth.