Mostly metrics
Run the Numbers
ClickUp CFO Dan Zhang on Frameworks to Level Up Your Decision Making and Communication

ClickUp CFO Dan Zhang on Frameworks to Level Up Your Decision Making and Communication

Full links to the episode below:

In this episode, CJ welcomes Dan Zhang, the CFO of ClickUp for a highly tactical and transparent conversation about getting–and staying– in the CFO seat. They cover her time at Amazon, her personal finance philosophy, and important frameworks for decision-making such as the Trust Formula and the Empty Boat Test. 

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@cjgustafson222 (CJ)



(00:00) Intro

(02:40) Sponsors: NetSuite | Thoropass

(05:30) From journalism to business

(07:10) Dan’s finance philosophy

(10:42) Lessons from Amazon

(13:48) Framework for improving communication

(19:35) Sponsor: Maxio

(21:00) Balancing short term and long term views as CFO

(22:55) Tactics and time management

(25:50) When to be optimistic vs pessimistic

(30:30) The traits of an ideal CFO

(34:04) Dan’s framework for decision making: the Trust Formula

(39:57) Dan’s framework for being 10x more effective: the Empty Boat Test

(42:25) Biggest myths 

(44:49) Best career story

(47:03) Biggest career screw up

(47:50) Dan’s software stack at ClickUp brought to you by Tropic

(50:00) Craziest expense

Mostly metrics
Run the Numbers
Run the Numbers is a twice-weekly podcast about financial metrics and business models, designed for ambitious people operating tech startups. It's a collection of things host CJ Gustafson (CFO at Partstech and writer of Mostly Metrics) has learned and thought about in the trenches as a tech CFO.
This show is meant to serve as a playbook of sorts for the stuff CJ wishes he knew earlier in his career, both from experience and from copying people smarter than himself.
Topics frequently touch upon Startup SaaS Metrics, Annual Budgeting, Financial Forecasting, Headcount, Equity, Dilution, and Fundraising – and how all of these drive business performance and growth.